TRANSCRIPT OF SONIA DONG | WHAT WE FOCUS ON GROWS … FROM CRISIS TO CREATING A FASION REVOLUTION!
[MUSIC INTRO]
Are you facing a crisis in your life or business? It's time to steer yourself in the right direction through the real experiences, passion and courage of our guests. We're taking the helm with your host, Lynn McLaughlin.
[00:00:20]
Hey, and welcome back to Taking the Helm. I want to start with some congratulations because as you may know, we just celebrated our 100th episode on Taking the Home. And our guest for that day was Kiran Diol, who is a family and child nutritionist and she offered a 1 hour free consultation. So I want to congratulate the winner, which is Lissa Morris. And I've connected you, Kiran with Lissa. Also, Sandra Lowry will be meeting with me to talk about all things marketing and book launching. And congratulations to Andre Blanchett who has been mailed copies of I Have Choices and J’ai des choix.
[00:01:08]
So, congratulations to all of you and just thrilled to be moving on to, I think, our 102nd episode today. And with that, our guest today is Sonia Dong. She's written part of a book called Mama's Got to Grow. She speaks about perfectionism, control and gratefulness. Sonya is an earth loving mama of two girls who runs Henkaa. It's a socially impactful Toronto clothing brand. And through Henkaa, she's creating a fashion revolution where one time you special occasion dresses and tops become a thing of the past. With Henkaa, the size is all inclusive and women and girls can wear the clothing through all seasons of life. Sonia is going to be speaking about the tragic loss of a friend who was also the founder of the company and what she had to grapple with to not only pay tribute to her friend and her friend's vision, but to keep the company going. Thanks, Sonia Dong joining us on Taking the home. Thanks, Glenn. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:55]
Oh, my goodness. You have a lot to share and I know you'll be helping many of our listeners and viewers. And let's go back as we always do in our podcast, every single episode, guests like you, Sonia, who have had to reset because of a crisis in their life for their business. And you certainly had to do so to get to where you are today with a very successful business. And as a mother, let's go back to that time, as challenging as it was, because it can take us to the possibilities.
[00:02:25]
Yeah, it was about 2019. Our founder at Tanka actually passed away, Joanna, I call her Joe. And she was a really good friend of mine and also, at the time, my boss. But she became ill a couple of years before that and it was just a lot to. I guess.
[00:02:50]
Intake and trying to help make sure the business was still running. But then also trying to separate but not being really able to separate that business part from that business relationship. From that personal relationship and then just really believing the whole time that she would get better. And that I was just like a steward for the company while she was away. Basically.
[00:03:22]
And just saying. Okay. Well. I'm just going to keep it going the way it is. Status quo.
[00:03:28]
Until she comes back. And that was always the thought that was in my mind. And it was like I didn't even entertain the thought of what would happen if she didn't, how would I feel personally, how would I handle the business, that kind of thing. And then the unimaginable happened and she passed. And then it was just this almost like a barrage of people asking questions and not me not having that time to just decompress or to grieve or.
[00:04:07]
The grieve that you love. Yeah. And I think that was the first time. It was the first time that I had ever lost somebody who was close to me in terms of not a family member as well. I had lost older family members before who had lived fuller lives, you know, like the longer life ban and that kind of thing.
[00:04:31]
So it still came as such a surprise to me and I just kind of shut down and as a person who is my husband will say, I'm very empathetic, I feel strong emotions and to at that time just kind of shut it off and say, okay, I just have to answer these questions from people. I have to answer questions around, I have to fill, make sure that the staff are okay and that everybody else was okay. And I didn't really look inside into myself.
[00:05:11]
It took a long time. And when she passed away in July 2019, and then the pandemic happened a few months, not even a year later. And so I was just coming out of that really hard grief and teasing around my emotions and like separating them and dealing with them one by one. And then the pandemic happened, and I just was like, oh my gosh, something else is happening. And again, went through that similar kind of questioning, do I keep the company going?
[00:05:55]
Am I keeping the company going for me or for her? And there are all these questions that were swirling around, and I started seeing a therapist and it was online because of covet and so just started doing a lot of work in terms of self-compassion and looking at my life long, I guess, struggle with perfectionism and how that was influencing me. And also seeing that I was putting so much into my work and feeling guilty about not that I wasn't looking after the children, but not in a way that I wanted to be present for them. Right? Yeah.
[00:06:40]
Okay. Wow. We can go on a few different directions. First of all, my condolences. 2019 seems like a long time ago, but it certainly wasn't. So, on the passing of Joanna. But I see three different trajectories here that we can talk about. First of all, could you clarify what your role was at the time that you stepped in? Were you a co-founder? Were you a manager? What was your role?
[00:07:01]
When Joanna became sick, I was a manager. Okay. So, I wasn't a co-founder. She was the sole founder, and she brought me on after my maternity leave in 2012. The company started in 2010, so I had been following along. She actually wore her first dress. It's a convertible dress that you can tie in different necklines. She actually wore her first one to my wedding. Yeah, we have to talk about Henkaa and what Henkaa is. You can get back to that one. That one's a very happy, fun story. But after I had my first child, she was like, Come and work with me. And I really believed in the business and what she was trying to do to empower women and help them find freedom in their fashion choices.
[00:07:53]
I had joined, and it was a small company, so I was doing a lot of different things, and I would just kind of fill different roles as was needed and kind of growing along the way. And then when she became sick, I was the program manager, and I don't even remember my role, my title anymore. But I was in a position, I guess, where, because she wasn't there, I could oversee things. Right. And I wanted to be able to do that for the company as well. I just want to explain the reason for asking, because I think for business owners, for small business owners, for growing businesses, we may think we're young and we're invincible, but transition planning is really important, right? So to train people in these very important things so that when something happens, god forbid things happen every single day a broken leg, a diagnosis, a car accident, who knows? Bereavement so that someone can step into the role and maybe not face the same pressures that you did during that time. That's one piece of it.
[00:09:07]
And then the emotional piece where you're attached to someone as someone you love. And the professional thing, I don't know, Sonia, that anybody could have separated the two. So, I hope you've forgiven yourself for that piece. But is it even possible when the pressures of a company are now on your shoulders and you've got to find time to grieve, you've got to find time to take care of yourself, but to take the chance that the company goes under or suffers a loss, those pressures must have been enormous at that time. Yeah, they really were.
I kept on thinking a lot of the things that went through my head were like, oh, my gosh, I'm not ready for this point. The succession planning and the training and also things coming up that were externally outside of my control. Right. Definitely something out of my control. So these past few years, I've really learned to try to separate that part, even though I couldn't really separate my emotional attachment to the business or to Joanna or any other part of my life. Really learning to sit and reflect on things that were happening in my life and thinking, okay, what is in my zone of control and what is outside of my control? And what can I do to just help myself in those areas that I do have control in? Right.
[00:10:37]
I love the way you frame that, because too often we get caught up on things that we don't have any we worry, we worry. We worry about things we have no control over. So focusing on what we do and making those conscious choices is so critical. But it's not easy. It's not an easy thing to do. Everything going on around us. I'm sure Joanna will be absolutely thrilled with what you've taken the company from, gotten it through Covet. Let's talk about Henkaa now. Sure. Yeah.
[00:11:05]
So the name of the company actually means change in Japanese. That's how when she was looking for a name for the company, it really represents the company's whole ethos in terms of understanding that we are always changing throughout life. And that is the only thing that is constant, is change. Right. And how do we approach that? How can we be more resilient with that? And with Henkaa, it's through a fashion lens. It's through clothing. So Joanna had been going she was building her professional career. She was traveling.
[00:11:49]
She was going to a lot of weddings. So she was just buying a lot of clothes that she had to spend a lot of money on. I get it. My son just got married. I got three more weddings on the horizon.
[00:12:01]
So yeah, this is really interested in what you're about to share. Yeah. She had all these things in her closet, and she could only wear one time. Like, maybe it goes out of fashion. Somebody has already seen her wear it.
[00:12:15]
She doesn't fit into it anymore. All the things that we go through as a woman, and it's like that movie with Catherine Heigl 27 Dresses, where she has a whole closet of 27 dresses because she's been a bridesmaid that many times. A useless closet right. With things that are just wasteful. Right.
[00:12:41]
You spent your money. You can't use it anymore. It's also something where who knows if anybody wants to wear it anymore? So she found out about this convertible dress idea, and she was like, I want to make it even better, because one of the core problems that we have as women is our bodies do change throughout our life, and so our weight fluctuates no matter what our journeys are. So she was like, I'm going to make a dress that is stretchy and comfortable, so that when you put it on, it conforms to your body.
[00:13:15]
Instead of you having to change yourself to fit into something, that dress should fit to you. And it really is. It's like stretchy and comfortable. And so the main dress that we have, the one that she started off with as she worked my wedding, it only has two size ranges, a zero to 14 and a 14 to 24. So you're telling me that I no longer have to have those sizes that I might fit into again sometime in my life off to the side of my closet?
[00:13:44]
Exactly. You know that it's one of those things that you can have in your closet that you can always put on. And for me, after having two children, my Henkaa addresses are the only things in my closet I still have.
[00:14:05]
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[00:15:22]
Even though I had things that I could fit into again, you know, as a mom, right, your body still changes. Different parts of your body sit differently after you have children, right? So even if something fits, it doesn't look right anymore. But because the hank addresses do adjust your body, they still fit me. And the other thing about it is that they are so versatile and you can tie them into different necklines so that it can transform into a completely different dress. It's like a Transformer or a convertible car. It's like very visually, when you see that transformation happen, you're like, oh my gosh, how did you even do that?
And that's exactly what she did when she came to my wedding in 2009. She wore a purple dress and a one shoulder. She wore it in a one shoulder version. She came to the table and somebody else was wearing a one shoulder purple dress. And normally you'd say, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I look exactly the same as somebody else. She said, no problem, I'll be right back. I'm just going to go to ladies room. And she changed it into, like, a high neck halter dress. And people saw her in the washroom and said, Where do I get that dress?
And she said, I'm going to make it. It's coming soon. And I always say that if my wedding was a few months later, my bridesmaids could have had hank dresses, too, because it was such a headache trying to find dresses to fit all their different styles and body sizes. And my understanding is you also have the accessories to change it up so it never looks the same way twice. Yeah, exactly.
[00:16:48]
We do have some jewelry and necklaces. We have tube tops to provide more coverage, and sashes, which are pieces of fabric that are kind of like flexible belts. And then it's really easy to accessorize from your own closet as well. So you can pair it with, like, a jean jacket or a leather jacket or with different types of shoes and purses, and you'll get different looks. And you can do things like wear it to work or wear it on travel just by changing the accessories that you wear the dresses with.
[00:17:24]
Well, like I said before, I'm sure Joanne is very proud of what you've done with the business and carried on her legacy and her vision. To me, this meets a lot of needs, not just in terms of women's attire, but equity, inclusion, all of those kinds of things. Yeah. It's really important to us that we are inclusive in our sizing. Way back, I think it was in 2013, we actually did something called equality pricing. So a lot of plus size clothing is actually more expensive than smaller size clothing, which we find is very inequitable. And so we said we're going to make everything the same price. We're going to make sure that whenever we make new dresses and styles, that they're going to fit up to size 24. And then we also want to represent women of different shapes and sizes and different ethnicities and life journeys in our marketing. So you'll see that when you look on our Instagram or on our website, we don't have just size women who are size two wearing the dresses.
[00:18:40]
And my guess is the dresses are not a $600 dress that you would typically be looking at if you were standing in a wedding. Yeah, most of our dresses are under $250, and they're also made in Canada. Oh, that's good to know. Yeah. And because their size flexible and stretchy, you don't have to go through that nightmare of going to the alterations multiple times and spending more money on that, too, because what happens a lot is you buy a dress that's $300, then you're going to have to pay $150 for alterations. Then it can only be dry cleaned, and there's all these things. Right. And then you can't wear it again. The cost per wear of our dresses is really great because you can wear it to a wedding and then you can wear it to a different event later on. You can wear it out on date night, so it's very versatile.
And then you can also it's machine washable as well, so it's easy to take care of. We just want to make life easier for women. It sounds like you most definitely are, and I will certainly check it out. Sonya, you're also an author. You've written a chapter in the book called Mama's Got to Grow, and you called the chapter perfectly Grateful, and you had some really wonderful insights into perfectionism control.
[00:20:04]
Tell us a little bit about what your main message is without giving up too much, because we want people to read the entire book. Yeah, it was looking at how perfectionism has affected my life since being a young girl and knowing that I mean, I come from an immigrant Chinese family, so when I was growing up, my parents really focused on education, and they really wanted us to have really good grades so we can get higher education that they weren't able to have. And so they would say things that were seems innocuous, but it gets kind of ingrained into a child's brain. Right. They would say things like, oh, my gosh, you got an A, where's the plus?
[00:20:55]
Or you got 92, where's the other 8%? And you're always thinking of, okay, well, if I get that, then I'm perfect, right? And that it's just not good enough if I'm not. And so you're also always chasing that perfectionism, and that's just kind of been ingrained into my body and my brain. Right.
[00:21:19]
As my coauthor says, my niece, who's also a social worker, she coauthored the children's book series with me. It's the self-talk that starts from the time you're a child all the way through, that you're not good enough. You've made a mistake. Oh, I should have done better. And it just that becomes tough as you grow older.
Yeah. And how that perfectionism really affected me when I became a mom. Because as a mom. And when you have social media and you have movies and you see all these women and they're so happy and glowing when they're pregnant and everything's going so well. And they're so happy when the baby comes out and the baby sleeps and.
[00:22:02]
All these stories it's a fairy tale. Not total fairy tale. And I always thought, Why isn't this working? And because I was, like, reading books, so I was reading all these parenting books with all this advice, and nothing was working, and I thought I was really failing as a mom and so thinking about how I can be. And then because I was also a working mom, after my maternity leave, I went back to work and just feeling like I was not perfect at work and not perfect as a mom and all of that all of that going on. And so what I talked about in the book was some of the methods that I had used to overcome that perfectionism and that gratitude is something that has been a really great tool for me to learn how to let go of that perfectionism. You flip your focus, right? Yeah. Instead of the self-doubt and the critical thinking, you flip it to what you're thankful for and what things are going well. Right.
[00:23:11]
It's a totally different mindset. Yes. And that shift in the mindset was really, really helpful, not only with my children, but also with my relationship with my husband, because a lot of people know after you have kids, your relationship can really suffer with your partner because you don't have time for that relationship as much anymore. You don't make that time because you're so focused on the children, not to. Mention everything else on your plate. Right. Yeah. So attitude really helped us in that sense, too, to rebuild our relationship and help it grow at that point.
Okay, since we're talking about childhood and I'm on a quest right now in terms of children's mental health and everything that's happened over the last couple of years is certainly we're really on the brink of a crisis for a lot of reasons. So you're a fairly new parent. You go back to what you learned as a child and what you wish maybe didn't happen. What would you say to parents today that maybe would help us avoid starting to begin that self-doubt and becoming a perfectionist? What do you think?
[00:24:27]
Yeah, for sure. I'm thinking about my kids because sometimes they will do things where they're drawing a picture, and then all of a sudden, they'll just cross it off and throw it out and say, that wasn't good. I didn't like it. It's not perfect. And I say, it's okay, you're going to make mistakes.
It doesn't need to be perfect. We try to stress hard work versus and actually saying things are not always effortless. Of course, sometimes things do come easily, but having some difficulty in your life is okay. It's how you approach that difficulty. And asking for help is always good. Also recognizing that it's okay that you're not getting 100%. Right. Yeah. I'm going to put on my educator hat here, too, just to jump. Sorry, I shouldn't move on in front of me.
[00:25:29]
I'm going to put on my educator hat and my mom hat here, too. And this goes with all the principles of behavioral reinforcement and all of those things that we learn as educators. But boy, do kids respond to positive reinforcement, even the tiniest, tiniest little things. So as opposed to saying, well, that's okay, you'll do better next time. That is a wonderful what do you think you want to change for next time? You put it back on their plate and make it so that they're doing the goal setting. So I think if we can do more of that as parents, I wish I could go back in time, but I can't, and that's okay. But we can only help others to maybe think differently, and everybody thinks differently based on their background, their culture, and how they were raised themselves. So thanks for answering that. I appreciate it.
[00:26:16]
Yeah, no problem. And I was going to say, too, with my own gratitude practice, I try to encourage the kids to also have a gratitude practice, so that's what I talk about in the book is at nighttime, when we do bedtime, we will say, what did you like the most about today? Or what were you thankful for? So that they go to sleep with something positive in their head. I love it.
[00:26:40]
I love it. And another thing that my coauthor, Amber, has taught me self compassion. Huge self compassion and modeling. As a parent, we make mistakes, and what's wrong with saying to our kids, oh, I raised my voice. I shouldn't have raised my voice. I'm sorry, I'm really having a bad day. I shouldn't have done that. Because what happens on the other side, as Amber explains so eloquently, is that the kids start to think or behave that way. Mom, I blew up. I really had a bad day at school. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have taken out at you. And we model that. Yeah. We're all human, and it just becomes a healthy part of being.
[00:27:17]
Yeah, definitely. We shouldn't hide our feelings from our children. They're like a reflection of us. Right. So if we're doing what we want them to do and what you're saying, modeling, I think it's really helpful for them to learn how to do that as well and not to hide their feelings or bottle them up. Agreed. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot for closing comment here in terms of what is your role now with Henkaa?
[00:27:48]
So my role now is I am a co owner and managing director. And after Joanna passed, her husband and I decided that we wanted to continue with the business because we feel like more people need to know about what the message of Henkaa is and how we're helping women. So what advice would you have for other people who are business owners at this point so that they don't make the same mistakes that possibly happened in Henkaa? Yeah, I think really what happened with me was because I was feeling so much self doubt and so much grief, and I felt really alone, and I went into myself, and this is something similar that happened when I had the children and I was feeling really talented, I kind of set myself off from other people. But my advice would be, don't do that.
Reach out. You know, I did go see a therapist. In the end, that was really helpful for the business. It's been really helpful to seek other small business owners and speak to them, because what I found was that internally, I felt like people would judge me or that I was not doing enough or not doing things right. But then when you start talking to other people, you find out that they've made mistakes as well.
[00:29:15]
And there's like that common humanity there, and that support, because with small businesses, people really want to help each other. And I found that was really wonderful. And being able to connect with people and make those connections. I'm a very strong introvert, so I don't like big networking things. But being able to find a few people to talk to once in a while, to share insights, to vent, to help each other out with support has been really, really helpful.
[00:29:52]
God forbid another entrepreneur loses a partner or the owner of the business, etc, etc. But lots of things happen, as we learned over the last couple of years with Toby, that make us take a total divert, a total change. I don't like the word pivot anymore. It's overused. But your words of advice are so true because, yes, we may be in charge of a business, and our income relies on that, and our family's future relies on that. And that's a lot. That's a heavy, heavy burden to take. But we're never alone. And I've got counseling several times in my life in different forms of counseling. I've learned meditation, I'm now doing pool, yoga, all these kinds of things that help us to stay grounded and on track. But we should never feel like we're alone. And I'm so pleased that you shared those words. Small business owners are a community, and I don't know anybody. If you had reached out to me or anyone else who says, lynn and I need some help, I'm here. What can I do for you?
[00:30:47]
And vice versa. I know there's people I can call too, so I guess I would add to what you're saying, Sonia. If you don't have a network already, start to look for those, likeminded, businesses, like minded people. The business actually might look totally different than yours, but your philosophy and your belief system might be totally in line. I just had lunch two weeks ago with a woman I met online, and we are like, there's three of us and we are so connected. And I'd say there's about four people that I've met online in the last three or four years that we've now met in person, and we've become friends and that's a new network. So, yeah, anyone is listening. And never my business owner. Even for your own personal well being, have people in your life, not your children, not your spouse? Well, yes, those, of course, but to.
Have the other people who kind of expand your horizons or different people in your life provide different types of support and help to you. Right. And you can provide different types of health and support to them as well. Yeah, and I think that's really important. Excellent.
[00:31:52]
Excellent. Okay, Sonya, where can people find you. So they can find me at Henkaa. So the website is www dot. Henkaa Henkacom.
[00:32:05]
Our instagram is Henkaa. And I'm also on LinkedIn. Sonia Dong. O-N-I-A-D-O-N-G. All right?
[00:32:14]
Fantastic. We always put those links in our podcast notes and something we started, I think, three episodes ago. We're now doing full transcriptions that are available on my website, too. So trying to think about how to get the message out to people in different ways who maybe don't have the time to sit and watch or are too busy. And, you know, I'm hearing from a lot of people who are listening to not just this podcast, but are becoming podcast gurus. When we're out walking, when we're driving in our car, instead of listening to the news, you put on a podcast that inspires you, that makes you think a little bit differently. So I hope people are going to reach out to you at Henkaa. Are there any deals on the horizon, anything people can look forward to? Yeah, we do have a section that is for clearance products. We are planning a little bit of a summer clear out soon as well.
[00:33:04]
If you want to try us out. Check us out. You can go on our website and get onto a mailing list and that's the best way to be the first one to know about any kinds of promotions and new products and any kind of new inspiration and also styling tips because we have tons of videos and tons of tips for people on how to style the dresses and reuse them. We have a place here in Kingsville called Cindy's where they sell scarves and they have videos of, I don't know, 20 different ways to use a scarf and I never even thought of half of them. So I look forward to taking a look at those tips as well.
[00:33:40]
Thank you again, Sonia Dong joining us today, and all the best of health and happiness to you. Thank you, Ellen, I appreciate it. Okay, now introducing our next guest. Wouldn't it be amazing if each of us joined a mission to become the CEO of our own health? Incredible.
[00:33:57]
That's what our next guest, Marg Wallace will be talking about. She's the founder of Wallace for Wellness. She's going to be talking about some game changing technology that is quietly gaining acceptance across Europe, has been approved by Canada Health and puts us in a much more proactive place. Now, I can't let the cat out of the bag, but taking a couple of weeks off. We'll see you with Margaret on the 28 September.
(MUSIC OUTRO) Thanks for tuning in and posting your review of taking the helm on your favorite platform. We'll give you a shout out in a future episode.To be inspired by people who are steering us in the right direction. Go to lynnmclaughlin.com where you can search previous guests by the topic of your choice. And while you're there, download Lynn's gift. There's more than one way to get through a crisis.
