TRANSCRIPT OF SONIA DONG | WHAT WE FOCUS ON GROWS … FROM CRISIS TO CREATING A FASION REVOLUTION!

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[MUSIC INTRO]
Are you facing a crisis in your life or business? It's time to steer yourself in the right direction through the real experiences, passion and courage of our guests. We're taking the helm with your host, Lynn McLaughlin.

[00:00:20]
Hey, and welcome back to Taking the Helm. I want to start with some congratulations because as you may know, we just celebrated our 100th episode on Taking the Home. And our guest for that day was Kiran Diol, who is a family and child nutritionist and she offered a 1 hour free consultation. So I want to congratulate the winner, which is Lissa Morris. And I've connected you, Kiran with Lissa. Also, Sandra Lowry will be meeting with me to talk about all things marketing and book launching. And congratulations to Andre Blanchett who has been mailed copies of I Have Choices and J’ai des choix.

[00:01:08]

So, congratulations to all of you and just thrilled to be moving on to, I think, our 102nd episode today. And with that, our guest today is Sonia Dong. She's written part of a book called Mama's Got to Grow. She speaks about perfectionism, control and gratefulness. Sonya is an earth loving mama of two girls who runs Henkaa. It's a socially impactful Toronto clothing brand. And through Henkaa, she's creating a fashion revolution where one time you special occasion dresses and tops become a thing of the past. With Henkaa, the size is all inclusive and women and girls can wear the clothing through all seasons of life. Sonia is going to be speaking about the tragic loss of a friend who was also the founder of the company and what she had to grapple with to not only pay tribute to her friend and her friend's vision, but to keep the company going. Thanks, Sonia Dong joining us on Taking the home. Thanks, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:55]
Oh, my goodness. You have a lot to share and I know you'll be helping many of our listeners and viewers. And let's go back as we always do in our podcast, every single episode, guests like you, Sonia, who have had to reset because of a crisis in their life for their business. And you certainly had to do so to get to where you are today with a very successful business. And as a mother, let's go back to that time, as challenging as it was, because it can take us to the possibilities.

[00:02:25]
Yeah, it was about 2019. Our founder at Tanka actually passed away, Joanna, I call her Joe. And she was a really good friend of mine and also, at the time, my boss. But she became ill a couple of years before that and it was just a lot to. I guess.

[00:02:50]
Intake and trying to help make sure the business was still running. But then also trying to separate but not being really able to separate that business part from that business relationship. From that personal relationship and then just really believing the whole time that she would get better. And that I was just like a steward for the company while she was away. Basically.

[00:03:22]
And just saying. Okay. Well. I'm just going to keep it going the way it is. Status quo.

[00:03:28]
Until she comes back. And that was always the thought that was in my mind. And it was like I didn't even entertain the thought of what would happen if she didn't, how would I feel personally, how would I handle the business, that kind of thing. And then the unimaginable happened and she passed. And then it was just this almost like a barrage of people asking questions and not me not having that time to just decompress or to grieve or.

[00:04:07]
The grieve that you love. Yeah. And I think that was the first time. It was the first time that I had ever lost somebody who was close to me in terms of not a family member as well. I had lost older family members before who had lived fuller lives, you know, like the longer life ban and that kind of thing.

[00:04:31]
So it still came as such a surprise to me and I just kind of shut down and as a person who is my husband will say, I'm very empathetic, I feel strong emotions and to at that time just kind of shut it off and say, okay, I just have to answer these questions from people. I have to answer questions around, I have to fill, make sure that the staff are okay and that everybody else was okay. And I didn't really look inside into myself.

[00:05:11]
It took a long time. And when she passed away in July 2019, and then the pandemic happened a few months, not even a year later. And so I was just coming out of that really hard grief and teasing around my emotions and like separating them and dealing with them one by one. And then the pandemic happened, and I just was like, oh my gosh, something else is happening. And again, went through that similar kind of questioning, do I keep the company going?

[00:05:55]
Am I keeping the company going for me or for her? And there are all these questions that were swirling around, and I started seeing a therapist and it was online because of covet and so just started doing a lot of work in terms of self-compassion and looking at my life long, I guess, struggle with perfectionism and how that was influencing me. And also seeing that I was putting so much into my work and feeling guilty about not that I wasn't looking after the children, but not in a way that I wanted to be present for them. Right? Yeah.

[00:06:40]
Okay. Wow. We can go on a few different directions. First of all, my condolences. 2019 seems like a long time ago, but it certainly wasn't. So, on the passing of Joanna. But I see three different trajectories here that we can talk about. First of all, could you clarify what your role was at the time that you stepped in? Were you a co-founder? Were you a manager? What was your role?

[00:07:01]
When Joanna became sick, I was a manager. Okay. So, I wasn't a co-founder. She was the sole founder, and she brought me on after my maternity leave in 2012. The company started in 2010, so I had been following along. She actually wore her first dress. It's a convertible dress that you can tie in different necklines. She actually wore her first one to my wedding. Yeah, we have to talk about Henkaa and what Henkaa is. You can get back to that one. That one's a very happy, fun story. But after I had my first child, she was like, Come and work with me. And I really believed in the business and what she was trying to do to empower women and help them find freedom in their fashion choices.

[00:07:53]
I had joined, and it was a small company, so I was doing a lot of different things, and I would just kind of fill different roles as was needed and kind of growing along the way. And then when she became sick, I was the program manager, and I don't even remember my role, my title anymore. But I was in a position, I guess, where, because she wasn't there, I could oversee things. Right. And I wanted to be able to do that for the company as well. I just want to explain the reason for asking, because I think for business owners, for small business owners, for growing businesses, we may think we're young and we're invincible, but transition planning is really important, right? So to train people in these very important things so that when something happens, god forbid things happen every single day a broken leg, a diagnosis, a car accident, who knows? Bereavement so that someone can step into the role and maybe not face the same pressures that you did during that time. That's one piece of it.

[00:09:07]
And then the emotional piece where you're attached to someone as someone you love. And the professional thing, I don't know, Sonia, that anybody could have separated the two. So, I hope you've forgiven yourself for that piece. But is it even possible when the pressures of a company are now on your shoulders and you've got to find time to grieve, you've got to find time to take care of yourself, but to take the chance that the company goes under or suffers a loss, those pressures must have been enormous at that time. Yeah, they really were.


I kept on thinking a lot of the things that went through my head were like, oh, my gosh, I'm not ready for this point. The succession planning and the training and also things coming up that were externally outside of my control. Right. Definitely something out of my control. So these past few years, I've really learned to try to separate that part, even though I couldn't really separate my emotional attachment to the business or to Joanna or any other part of my life. Really learning to sit and reflect on things that were happening in my life and thinking, okay, what is in my zone of control and what is outside of my control? And what can I do to just help myself in those areas that I do have control in? Right.

[00:10:37]
I love the way you frame that, because too often we get caught up on things that we don't have any we worry, we worry. We worry about things we have no control over. So focusing on what we do and making those conscious choices is so critical. But it's not easy. It's not an easy thing to do. Everything going on around us. I'm sure Joanna will be absolutely thrilled with what you've taken the company from, gotten it through Covet. Let's talk about Henkaa now. Sure. Yeah.

[00:11:05]
So the name of the company actually means change in Japanese. That's how when she was looking for a name for the company, it really represents the company's whole ethos in terms of understanding that we are always changing throughout life. And that is the only thing that is constant, is change. Right. And how do we approach that? How can we be more resilient with that? And with Henkaa, it's through a fashion lens. It's through clothing. So Joanna had been going she was building her professional career. She was traveling.

[00:11:49]
She was going to a lot of weddings. So she was just buying a lot of clothes that she had to spend a lot of money on. I get it. My son just got married. I got three more weddings on the horizon.

[00:12:01]
So yeah, this is really interested in what you're about to share. Yeah. She had all these things in her closet, and she could only wear one time. Like, maybe it goes out of fashion. Somebody has already seen her wear it.

[00:12:15]
She doesn't fit into it anymore. All the things that we go through as a woman, and it's like that movie with Catherine Heigl 27 Dresses, where she has a whole closet of 27 dresses because she's been a bridesmaid that many times. A useless closet right. With things that are just wasteful. Right.

[00:12:41]
You spent your money. You can't use it anymore. It's also something where who knows if anybody wants to wear it anymore? So she found out about this convertible dress idea, and she was like, I want to make it even better, because one of the core problems that we have as women is our bodies do change throughout our life, and so our weight fluctuates no matter what our journeys are. So she was like, I'm going to make a dress that is stretchy and comfortable, so that when you put it on, it conforms to your body.

[00:13:15]
Instead of you having to change yourself to fit into something, that dress should fit to you. And it really is. It's like stretchy and comfortable. And so the main dress that we have, the one that she started off with as she worked my wedding, it only has two size ranges, a zero to 14 and a 14 to 24. So you're telling me that I no longer have to have those sizes that I might fit into again sometime in my life off to the side of my closet?

[00:13:44]
Exactly. You know that it's one of those things that you can have in your closet that you can always put on. And for me, after having two children, my Henkaa addresses are the only things in my closet I still have.

[00:14:05]
It's time to take a short break. When a child, you know, is feeling worried or scared, do they have the tools they need to make positive decisions? The power of thought. Children's book series is what you've been looking for. The children on the planet Tesla cannot hide their emotions because they haven't learned how to control them yet. I Have Choices, the first book in the series begins with a conflict that every child can relate to and teaches an evidence-based strategy that adults can model for everyday use. Children will learn in a fun way how to problem solve and find positive solutions to everyday situations.

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[00:15:22]

Even though I had things that I could fit into again, you know, as a mom, right, your body still changes. Different parts of your body sit differently after you have children, right? So even if something fits, it doesn't look right anymore. But because the hank addresses do adjust your body, they still fit me. And the other thing about it is that they are so versatile and you can tie them into different necklines so that it can transform into a completely different dress. It's like a Transformer or a convertible car. It's like very visually, when you see that transformation happen, you're like, oh my gosh, how did you even do that?

And that's exactly what she did when she came to my wedding in 2009. She wore a purple dress and a one shoulder. She wore it in a one shoulder version. She came to the table and somebody else was wearing a one shoulder purple dress. And normally you'd say, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I look exactly the same as somebody else. She said, no problem, I'll be right back. I'm just going to go to ladies room. And she changed it into, like, a high neck halter dress. And people saw her in the washroom and said, Where do I get that dress?

And she said, I'm going to make it. It's coming soon. And I always say that if my wedding was a few months later, my bridesmaids could have had hank dresses, too, because it was such a headache trying to find dresses to fit all their different styles and body sizes. And my understanding is you also have the accessories to change it up so it never looks the same way twice. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:48]
We do have some jewelry and necklaces. We have tube tops to provide more coverage, and sashes, which are pieces of fabric that are kind of like flexible belts. And then it's really easy to accessorize from your own closet as well. So you can pair it with, like, a jean jacket or a leather jacket or with different types of shoes and purses, and you'll get different looks. And you can do things like wear it to work or wear it on travel just by changing the accessories that you wear the dresses with.

[00:17:24]
Well, like I said before, I'm sure Joanne is very proud of what you've done with the business and carried on her legacy and her vision. To me, this meets a lot of needs, not just in terms of women's attire, but equity, inclusion, all of those kinds of things. Yeah. It's really important to us that we are inclusive in our sizing. Way back, I think it was in 2013, we actually did something called equality pricing. So a lot of plus size clothing is actually more expensive than smaller size clothing, which we find is very inequitable. And so we said we're going to make everything the same price. We're going to make sure that whenever we make new dresses and styles, that they're going to fit up to size 24. And then we also want to represent women of different shapes and sizes and different ethnicities and life journeys in our marketing. So you'll see that when you look on our Instagram or on our website, we don't have just size women who are size two wearing the dresses.

[00:18:40]
And my guess is the dresses are not a $600 dress that you would typically be looking at if you were standing in a wedding. Yeah, most of our dresses are under $250, and they're also made in Canada. Oh, that's good to know. Yeah. And because their size flexible and stretchy, you don't have to go through that nightmare of going to the alterations multiple times and spending more money on that, too, because what happens a lot is you buy a dress that's $300, then you're going to have to pay $150 for alterations. Then it can only be dry cleaned, and there's all these things. Right. And then you can't wear it again. The cost per wear of our dresses is really great because you can wear it to a wedding and then you can wear it to a different event later on. You can wear it out on date night, so it's very versatile.

And then you can also it's machine washable as well, so it's easy to take care of. We just want to make life easier for women. It sounds like you most definitely are, and I will certainly check it out. Sonya, you're also an author. You've written a chapter in the book called Mama's Got to Grow, and you called the chapter perfectly Grateful, and you had some really wonderful insights into perfectionism control.

[00:20:04]
Tell us a little bit about what your main message is without giving up too much, because we want people to read the entire book. Yeah, it was looking at how perfectionism has affected my life since being a young girl and knowing that I mean, I come from an immigrant Chinese family, so when I was growing up, my parents really focused on education, and they really wanted us to have really good grades so we can get higher education that they weren't able to have. And so they would say things that were seems innocuous, but it gets kind of ingrained into a child's brain. Right. They would say things like, oh, my gosh, you got an A, where's the plus?

[00:20:55]
Or you got 92, where's the other 8%? And you're always thinking of, okay, well, if I get that, then I'm perfect, right? And that it's just not good enough if I'm not. And so you're also always chasing that perfectionism, and that's just kind of been ingrained into my body and my brain. Right.

[00:21:19]
As my coauthor says, my niece, who's also a social worker, she coauthored the children's book series with me. It's the self-talk that starts from the time you're a child all the way through, that you're not good enough. You've made a mistake. Oh, I should have done better. And it just that becomes tough as you grow older.

Yeah. And how that perfectionism really affected me when I became a mom. Because as a mom. And when you have social media and you have movies and you see all these women and they're so happy and glowing when they're pregnant and everything's going so well. And they're so happy when the baby comes out and the baby sleeps and.

[00:22:02]
All these stories it's a fairy tale. Not total fairy tale. And I always thought, Why isn't this working? And because I was, like, reading books, so I was reading all these parenting books with all this advice, and nothing was working, and I thought I was really failing as a mom and so thinking about how I can be. And then because I was also a working mom, after my maternity leave, I went back to work and just feeling like I was not perfect at work and not perfect as a mom and all of that all of that going on. And so what I talked about in the book was some of the methods that I had used to overcome that perfectionism and that gratitude is something that has been a really great tool for me to learn how to let go of that perfectionism. You flip your focus, right? Yeah. Instead of the self-doubt and the critical thinking, you flip it to what you're thankful for and what things are going well. Right.

[00:23:11]
It's a totally different mindset. Yes. And that shift in the mindset was really, really helpful, not only with my children, but also with my relationship with my husband, because a lot of people know after you have kids, your relationship can really suffer with your partner because you don't have time for that relationship as much anymore. You don't make that time because you're so focused on the children, not to. Mention everything else on your plate. Right. Yeah. So attitude really helped us in that sense, too, to rebuild our relationship and help it grow at that point.

Okay, since we're talking about childhood and I'm on a quest right now in terms of children's mental health and everything that's happened over the last couple of years is certainly we're really on the brink of a crisis for a lot of reasons. So you're a fairly new parent. You go back to what you learned as a child and what you wish maybe didn't happen. What would you say to parents today that maybe would help us avoid starting to begin that self-doubt and becoming a perfectionist? What do you think?

[00:24:27]
Yeah, for sure. I'm thinking about my kids because sometimes they will do things where they're drawing a picture, and then all of a sudden, they'll just cross it off and throw it out and say, that wasn't good. I didn't like it. It's not perfect. And I say, it's okay, you're going to make mistakes.

It doesn't need to be perfect. We try to stress hard work versus and actually saying things are not always effortless. Of course, sometimes things do come easily, but having some difficulty in your life is okay. It's how you approach that difficulty. And asking for help is always good. Also recognizing that it's okay that you're not getting 100%. Right. Yeah. I'm going to put on my educator hat here, too, just to jump. Sorry, I shouldn't move on in front of me.

[00:25:29]
I'm going to put on my educator hat and my mom hat here, too. And this goes with all the principles of behavioral reinforcement and all of those things that we learn as educators. But boy, do kids respond to positive reinforcement, even the tiniest, tiniest little things. So as opposed to saying, well, that's okay, you'll do better next time. That is a wonderful what do you think you want to change for next time? You put it back on their plate and make it so that they're doing the goal setting. So I think if we can do more of that as parents, I wish I could go back in time, but I can't, and that's okay. But we can only help others to maybe think differently, and everybody thinks differently based on their background, their culture, and how they were raised themselves. So thanks for answering that. I appreciate it.

[00:26:16]
Yeah, no problem. And I was going to say, too, with my own gratitude practice, I try to encourage the kids to also have a gratitude practice, so that's what I talk about in the book is at nighttime, when we do bedtime, we will say, what did you like the most about today? Or what were you thankful for? So that they go to sleep with something positive in their head. I love it.

[00:26:40]
I love it. And another thing that my coauthor, Amber, has taught me self compassion. Huge self compassion and modeling. As a parent, we make mistakes, and what's wrong with saying to our kids, oh, I raised my voice. I shouldn't have raised my voice. I'm sorry, I'm really having a bad day. I shouldn't have done that. Because what happens on the other side, as Amber explains so eloquently, is that the kids start to think or behave that way. Mom, I blew up. I really had a bad day at school. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have taken out at you. And we model that. Yeah. We're all human, and it just becomes a healthy part of being.

[00:27:17]
Yeah, definitely. We shouldn't hide our feelings from our children. They're like a reflection of us. Right. So if we're doing what we want them to do and what you're saying, modeling, I think it's really helpful for them to learn how to do that as well and not to hide their feelings or bottle them up. Agreed. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot for closing comment here in terms of what is your role now with Henkaa?

[00:27:48]
So my role now is I am a co owner and managing director. And after Joanna passed, her husband and I decided that we wanted to continue with the business because we feel like more people need to know about what the message of Henkaa is and how we're helping women. So what advice would you have for other people who are business owners at this point so that they don't make the same mistakes that possibly happened in Henkaa? Yeah, I think really what happened with me was because I was feeling so much self doubt and so much grief, and I felt really alone, and I went into myself, and this is something similar that happened when I had the children and I was feeling really talented, I kind of set myself off from other people. But my advice would be, don't do that.

Reach out. You know, I did go see a therapist. In the end, that was really helpful for the business. It's been really helpful to seek other small business owners and speak to them, because what I found was that internally, I felt like people would judge me or that I was not doing enough or not doing things right. But then when you start talking to other people, you find out that they've made mistakes as well.

[00:29:15]
And there's like that common humanity there, and that support, because with small businesses, people really want to help each other. And I found that was really wonderful. And being able to connect with people and make those connections. I'm a very strong introvert, so I don't like big networking things. But being able to find a few people to talk to once in a while, to share insights, to vent, to help each other out with support has been really, really helpful.

[00:29:52]
God forbid another entrepreneur loses a partner or the owner of the business, etc, etc. But lots of things happen, as we learned over the last couple of years with Toby, that make us take a total divert, a total change. I don't like the word pivot anymore. It's overused. But your words of advice are so true because, yes, we may be in charge of a business, and our income relies on that, and our family's future relies on that. And that's a lot. That's a heavy, heavy burden to take. But we're never alone. And I've got counseling several times in my life in different forms of counseling. I've learned meditation, I'm now doing pool, yoga, all these kinds of things that help us to stay grounded and on track. But we should never feel like we're alone. And I'm so pleased that you shared those words. Small business owners are a community, and I don't know anybody. If you had reached out to me or anyone else who says, lynn and I need some help, I'm here. What can I do for you?

[00:30:47]
And vice versa. I know there's people I can call too, so I guess I would add to what you're saying, Sonia. If you don't have a network already, start to look for those, likeminded, businesses, like minded people. The business actually might look totally different than yours, but your philosophy and your belief system might be totally in line. I just had lunch two weeks ago with a woman I met online, and we are like, there's three of us and we are so connected. And I'd say there's about four people that I've met online in the last three or four years that we've now met in person, and we've become friends and that's a new network. So, yeah, anyone is listening. And never my business owner. Even for your own personal well being, have people in your life, not your children, not your spouse? Well, yes, those, of course, but to.

Have the other people who kind of expand your horizons or different people in your life provide different types of support and help to you. Right. And you can provide different types of health and support to them as well. Yeah, and I think that's really important. Excellent.

[00:31:52]
Excellent. Okay, Sonya, where can people find you. So they can find me at Henkaa. So the website is www dot. Henkaa Henkacom.

[00:32:05]
Our instagram is Henkaa. And I'm also on LinkedIn. Sonia Dong. O-N-I-A-D-O-N-G. All right?

[00:32:14]
Fantastic. We always put those links in our podcast notes and something we started, I think, three episodes ago. We're now doing full transcriptions that are available on my website, too. So trying to think about how to get the message out to people in different ways who maybe don't have the time to sit and watch or are too busy. And, you know, I'm hearing from a lot of people who are listening to not just this podcast, but are becoming podcast gurus. When we're out walking, when we're driving in our car, instead of listening to the news, you put on a podcast that inspires you, that makes you think a little bit differently. So I hope people are going to reach out to you at Henkaa. Are there any deals on the horizon, anything people can look forward to? Yeah, we do have a section that is for clearance products. We are planning a little bit of a summer clear out soon as well.

[00:33:04]
If you want to try us out. Check us out. You can go on our website and get onto a mailing list and that's the best way to be the first one to know about any kinds of promotions and new products and any kind of new inspiration and also styling tips because we have tons of videos and tons of tips for people on how to style the dresses and reuse them. We have a place here in Kingsville called Cindy's where they sell scarves and they have videos of, I don't know, 20 different ways to use a scarf and I never even thought of half of them. So I look forward to taking a look at those tips as well.

[00:33:40]
Thank you again, Sonia Dong joining us today, and all the best of health and happiness to you. Thank you, Ellen, I appreciate it. Okay, now introducing our next guest. Wouldn't it be amazing if each of us joined a mission to become the CEO of our own health? Incredible.

[00:33:57]
That's what our next guest, Marg Wallace will be talking about. She's the founder of Wallace for Wellness. She's going to be talking about some game changing technology that is quietly gaining acceptance across Europe, has been approved by Canada Health and puts us in a much more proactive place. Now, I can't let the cat out of the bag, but taking a couple of weeks off. We'll see you with Margaret on the 28 September.
 

(MUSIC OUTRO) Thanks for tuning in and posting your review of taking the helm on your favorite platform. We'll give you a shout out in a future episode.To be inspired by people who are steering us in the right direction. Go to lynnmclaughlin.com where you can search previous guests by the topic of your choice. And while you're there, download Lynn's gift. There's more than one way to get through a crisis.

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TRANSCRIPT OF KIRAN DEOL | STRUGGLING TO REACH OPTIMAL HEALTH FOR YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN? (Copy)

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(MUSIC INTRO) Are you facing a crisis in your life or business? It's time to steer yourself in the right direction through the real experiences, passion, and courage of our guests. We're taking the helm with your host, Lynn McLaughlin.

[00:00:20]
Hello to you today. This is a very special celebration. Today is our 100th episode of Taking the Helm. I can't believe it. When I think back to all of the amazing guests that we've had on the show that have made connections, that are helping people change lives because of the crisis that they went through themselves and their personal or their business lives, it just warms my heart, and I'm so proud to continue hosting this show.

[00:00:47]
Now, be sure to stay tuned to the end of the episode after we speak with Kiran Diol today. She's a holistic nutritionist CEO of Key to Health, Nutrition and Counseling. She is a childhood nutrition advocate because her own daughter's health was suffering after her birth, Kiran also made changes to her own diet after the discoveries she made. Now stay tuned to the end, or I guess you can fast forward. I hope you don't. Kiran has something to give away. For those of you who are interested in nutritional health, I have something to give away to authors. And of course, you can guess there's going to be a book giveaway as well. Welcome, Kiran, our 100th guest on taking home. Thank you.

[00:01:26]
Thanks for having me today. Lynn, I'm so excited to be your 100th guest. Excellent. Okay, well, Taking the Helm, as we've talked about Kiran, is all about a time in our life where we face some type of a crisis personally or professionally. And for you, it was the health of you and your daughter. Can you take us back to where that period of time was and what happened?

Yes. So when my daughter was born, I had all those hopes and dreams that every parent has of having this super chubby, healthy baby. And in all other respects, she was healthy, but she was always kind of on the skinnier side, and it was very difficult to keep her weight up. So getting to the doctor's office and getting those weight check ups, it was just a very stressful experience because as parents know, you have that way in your child every so often, and it's very frequent when they're very young.

[00:02:17]
And initially we were actually told, okay, bring her in a little bit more often because we want to keep an eye on her because her weight is on the lower end of the percentiles and on the growth curve. And it was nerve wracking because I couldn't figure out why she wasn't gaining weight and I was nursing her. She was nursing around the clock. That's what it seemed like. And she wasn't really gaining enough weight, and she was really fussy.

[00:02:41]
She was spitting up a lot. She seemed like she had some tummy pain. And so I went to luckily, where I lived, they had a free clinic. The nurses had a free clinic to teach you about breastfeeding and give you pointers. So I went there for help.

[00:02:57]
They did help some with latch and all those issues, but that wasn't really the root of the issue, and so it didn't, unfortunately, take care of the problem. And then I went to a few different doctors. We tried her GP, we tried a couple of different pediatricians, and we just got Bandaid medication offers of, okay, we can put her on. It sounds like she's got the massive reflux. We can give her this medication.

[00:03:22]
And then I looked at the side effects and I said, well, I'm not really comfortable with that. I don't really want to just put a Bandaid on it. I want to figure out why does she have this problem in the first place? And so when she started solids, I thought, great, this is going to fatten her up, and all my worries will be gone. And no, that did not happen.

[00:03:43]
She still struggled, and certain foods seemed to make it worse. And then I realized that even when I was nursing, that certain foods that I ate in my diet would make her tummy issues worse. So that was really kind of a big clue there as well. So I really started to do a lot of my own research. I started to just do a lot of Googling, trying to figure out what the issue was.

[00:04:05]
And I knew she had heard that acid reflux, that's what the doctor had said, but just trying to figure out how to manage it and what to do. So Google did help me somewhat. I learned what foods to kind of avoid, to avoid these symptoms, but it didn't really help me figure out how to get to the root and kind of eliminate that problem. So I was just getting more and more frustrated because as we all know, when you try to Google something, especially anything health related, nowadays, it is information overwhelmed. It is just complete overload.

[00:04:39]
And we don't have Google Doctors. Well, I guess you do actually have online Google Doctors or people who claim to be online Google Doctors, but that's certainly right. It is, and it's a slippery slope when you go down there. And so I was really just confused, and I thought, you know what? This is just I'm trying all of these different things, and it's a lot of trial and error, and I need to just kind of cut to the chase and figure out what I need to do.

[00:05:03]
So I started to look into nutrition programs, and I found this wonderful holistic nutrition program. It was local, and I thought, well, this is great. This is something that will really help me. And so I did that program, and then a couple of years later when I finished it, by that time, I really had a good understanding of okay, this is what's going on in my child's gut. And I just had this you get that feeling of, if only someone had told me all of this sooner, I could have saved a lot of grief for the both of us.

[00:05:33]
If only someone had just mentioned that health just those two words to me while I was pregnant, I could have looked into that sooner and hopefully prevented some of these issues. But better late than never. And she's happy and healthy and thriving and no longer has got issues. And I'd say she's generally just sort of symptom free. She doesn't have allergies or any of a lot of these other symptoms that plague so many kids these days.

[00:06:01]
And I really think it would have been the opposite if I hadn't really delved into the nutrition and the nutrition aspect and figuring out how to really reverse those issues that she was having with her gut. So, you didn't go through what we would refer to as an elimination diet to try to figure out what triggers were while you were nursing? You just jumped right over to this holistic nutritional program? Yes, that's what I did. And in a way, the elimination diet, because she was so young and because I was very aware and in tune of just mindful of keeping an eye on what foods were bothering her when she started solids, I knew right away if the food was bothering her because I started them one at a time with a few days in between.

[00:06:45]
And so we can't do that as adults, you can't just stop eating and then introduce the time. But with babies who are just starting solids, it's a great way of figuring out what foods work for them, which ones don't, and if there are a lot of foods that don't work for them, that's a big red flag that something is going on in their gut, because no one should have multiple food sensitivities. That's a big sign that there's something else going on there. So that made it easier in a sense, if I'd waited and I just ignored the problem and thought, okay, it'll just go away. I'll just slap on these band aid medications, wait for the problem to go away, and then realize a few years later, wait, this isn't going away, then an elimination diet would have probably been necessary, and that would have been more difficult, but still necessary.

[00:07:33]
Even though no one ever mentioned gut health to me early on during my pregnancy or when she was a baby, I am fortunate that I came across that world soon enough. And we know now gut health is related to it's not just something physical. When you have children with behavioral challenges, when you mentioned allergies emotional, all of those things are all linked to gut health. And we don't think of it that way. We think there's something in the environment that's affecting us.

[00:08:00]
Let's try to figure out what that trigger is when it's very often what we're ingesting or our children are ingesting, right? Yes, it's very often internal. I mean, of course there are external factors as well that can influence all that, but a lot of the time it is very internal, especially with children. Children haven't gone through life and developed all these traumas, and they don't have all of the stresses that adults have. They do have more stresses than children did once upon a time.

[00:08:27]
Unfortunately, just due to the nature of society these days. But generally, with children, it's more of an internal struggle and it's more of something going on inside their body. When we see these behavioral issues and disorders and just mood and stability. And even with my daughter, when I would give her these foods, that was one of the first signs I would notice. So there would be constipation and GI issues, but also just irritability.

[00:08:51]
She was just so fussy and irritable, and I could tell that something was not sitting well with her, and she wasn't able to communicate because she was just a baby, but that was her way of communicating and letting me know that food did not sit right with me. Okay, so now we understand why you changed the whole nutritional piece for your daughter, but once you were done nursing, why did you make that change for yourself? So, I was vegetarian for a long time prior, but I had a heavy dairy based diet, so I ate a lot of cheese, a lot of yogurt.

[00:09:28]
I can't emphasize enough how much cheese I ate. I probably ate more cheese than anybody else that I've ever met, and I didn't realize that that was harming my gut health. Yes, I know cheese is so hard to I didn't say it very loud. But I love cheese. We adore cheese.

[00:09:42]
Some evenings we'll have cheese and cabassa and crackers for dinner and I know don't jump through the screen at me, no judgment. I've been there too. And so, I really started to, through my daughter, through the transformation with her, start to realize, oh, okay, when she has too much dairy, it really affects her. She starts to get more congested. She starts to get more of these GI issues.

[00:10:04]
She gets more constipated with her. She had an issue with gluten as well. But again, I just want to say that it's a myth that everybody needs to cut out gluten. It's a very small percentage of the diet that actually does genuinely have issues with gluten. But she did and does.

[00:10:20]
And I realized through her because I was eating the way she was then, because it's just simpler to cook one meal for the whole family because I started eating the same way she was. So, I started eating gluten free and with less dairy and all of that, I started to feel better, but I didn't even know that I wasn't feeling great. So, my brain fog went away, which I had no idea I had. I had it for so long that I was just going through life thinking, this is normal. Yeah, I used to get eczema since I was a kid on my hands and sometimes on my arms.

[00:10:53]
And I would always just put a band aid cream on it and that went away as well. And it was just amazing. And I thought, oh my goodness, this is you know, my energy levels also went higher as well. And I had no idea that it was the food that was causing me to feel that way or that I wasn't even supposed to feel that way. When you mention allergies, I was thinking immediately.

[00:11:15]
Asthma, those kinds of things, but skin rashes, that makes me think of so many possibilities and people I know and people around me. My gosh, yes. And there are so many people that I've met either through work that I've worked with as clients and just friends and family who have also said that, oh my goodness, we had no idea that this is not how we were supposed to be feeling. And unfortunately, almost everyone these days has some sort of symptom. And I really just like to emphasize that just because symptoms have become so common doesn't make them normal in society.

[00:11:52]
We've unfortunately just become complacent and decided, okay, this is normal. Everybody has either intense hay fever or they've got seasonal, or they've got other allergies or food allergies, or asthma or rashes, or chronic headaches, chronic migraines, or just chronic fatigue. We've normalized all of these symptoms and they're really not any type of chronic symptom is not normal. And if you do have a chronic symptom, there are things you can do through your diet and your lifestyle to really improve your quality of life. And I just wish more people knew that.

[00:12:26]
What are the benefits of only having a plant-based diet? And I heard you use an expression; I'm going to say I am plant curious. Yes. So, I always like to welcome everyone into my community, whether they are fully plant based or just kind of going that way, or just not even going that way yet. But they're just curious about it.

[00:12:43]
They want to learn more about this way of eating. So, some of the benefits are you do reduce that heavy saturated fat load. So, animal products tend to be higher in saturated fat, which is hard on our digestion. They are also void of fiber. And this is the big one.

[00:13:00]
So growing up, whenever I heard about fiber, it was more like men and mule or something, a supplement. You see that OK, if someone's constipated give them a fiber supplement, you don't really think about all the different types of fiber that are in our food. And that's really key to gut health. And that's what we're learning more and more about, is that the wider variety of plant foods that we get in our diet, the wider variety of gut microbes we have. And so our gut microbiome is this collection of little critters, I like to call them.

[00:13:31]
So it's bacteria, yeast, viruses, fungi, and they are there for a reason. Most of them are beneficial. Some of them are the ones that aren't so beneficial. Unfortunately, they're still there, but we want to keep them in small numbers. And so, the way to do that is to feed the good ones, the beneficial ones, and we feed them with fiber and with plant foods.

[00:13:53]
And so it's really important that we increase the plants in our diet. So even if your intention is not to go fully plant based, just increasing the plants in your diet and the diversity of plants in your diet can go a long way in improving your gut health. What do you say to people in my own family that you're not going to get proteins, you're not going to get some of those minerals and nutrients that you need if you're only plant based. So you can still get protein on a plant based diet, you just have to be mindful of including the protein rich plant foods. So those are your nuts and seeds, your legumes, which includes tofu and edamame, any soy products, as well as sorry, when I say soy products, I mean like your tofu or tempo.

[00:14:37]
I don't mean soy sauce. That's not a protein. Right, understood. Yes. And beans and lentils and all of those wonderful foods.

[00:14:45]
And those are also foods that are predominant in the Blue Zones. I don't know if you've heard of. Blue Zones where I heard one of your Facebook lives. You were speaking about Blue Zones. Yes.

[00:14:56]
And so that is where people have studied. They've gone to study these people who live in these communities where for some reason they have a far greater number of centenarians or people who live past 100 than we do in general society. And it's not just their lifespan. They're not over 100 completely bedridden and unable to function. Their health span is also increased.

[00:15:20]
So they're still walking about and moving around and functioning and living their lives. And so when they go to study them, beans and legumes are predominant in their diet. And we do know that these foods are necessary for gut health and for feeding a wide variety of these little critters in our gut that really help us. And so just to give you some idea of what they do, they help us digest our food better, so they help us create some nutrients. They also help us create serotonin.

[00:15:52]
So 80% of our body serotonin is actually created in the gut. It's not created in the brain like most people would assume. Absolutely. That's my understanding. Yeah.

[00:16:01]
The serotonin is that feel-good, happy hormone, and it's actually created in the gut. And GABA as well, is a neurotransmitter that helps with anxiety. Our body is created and a lot of it is created in the gut by our gut microbes. And so, it's very interesting, all of these new research is coming out where we're finding out that our gut microbes actually it's not just serotonin and GABA. They make tons of other neurotransmitters as well.

[00:16:28]
And so they really communicate with the brain and really, in a sense, control the brain in that way. And so, if you or your children are experiencing mood and stability and irritability and anxiety and depression and there's really no external factor, this is something to consider. It may be your gut health that needs some work. Now, as the CEO of Key to Health Nutrition Counseling, I'm sure you're speaking to parents and guardians on a regular basis about the issues that they're observing and seeing in their children and helping them through a possible remedy. What advice would you give to someone, Kiran, who's just listening to this today for the first time and thinking, oh, I really need to think about this?

[00:17:06]
What should they do? I would say you need to start being more mindful of what your children are eating, so pay attention to what they're eating and how they're feeling. You notice that when they eat a certain way, they also feel a certain way, or they act out more, or their mood changes. These are signs. Keeping a food journal is great with kids because it can be hard to remember a lot of these foods.

[00:17:27]
It's not a direct impact. So, if you eat something that doesn't sit well with you, if it's a full blown allergy, yes, you will notice something immediately or shortly. But if it's something else where it's more of a sensitivity, or it's just something going on in the gut where it just doesn't sit well, you might not see these symptoms until a couple of days later and you might not remember what your child had a couple of days earlier. So keeping a food mood journal is what we call it is really helpful in that sense because then you can see, OK, you know what, this is what my child feels like consistently when they eat these foods a day later or two days later. And it really helps you to get that picture.

[00:18:03]
But I also like to point out that food sensitivities are a sign of something bigger going on because we shouldn't have multiple food sensitivities. So, some people might genetically be predisposed to say celiac disease or gluten sensitivities. Not everybody, though. Not as many as people think. But we do need to be mindful of the fact that if someone has multiple food sensitivities, that's not normal.

[00:18:29]
Our bodies should be able to digest most food, if not all food. And if it's not able to do that, then we need to take a deeper look at what's going on. And that's really what we need to focus on gut health and improving gut health. And if there's some dysbiosis going on in the gut, which is that imbalance of good bacteria to bad bacteria, we need to address that. It could be inflammation in the gut.

[00:18:53]
It could be inflammation of that gut lining. And so, we really need to focus on that as well. Or it could just be that we're not getting enough of the nutrients we need to keep our digestive system functioning properly. So let me give you a scenario. My child is ten years old, and I'm just discovering, oh, my goodness, there's some food sensitivities here.

[00:19:13]
I'll say. And I'm starting to remove let's just say it's red meat. I'm removing red meat from my child's diet. My guess is that a ten-year-old isn't going to jump right into legumes. No.

[00:19:25]
What might that transition look like for people who might be thinking about starting this? So, we want to focus on adding more in rather than taking stuff out. Because if you tell your children we're going to remove all of these foods, they're not going to be on board. If you sort of just start to sneak more of these plant foods in, if you start to just add more to their plate, you start to include more of them into whatever meals you're making, and you slowly increase the amount. We never want to, especially with children, do a drastic overnight haul where you just completely change their diet.

[00:20:01]
Any parent knows that your child will not be on board with that, and you will not be able to get them to eat it. It's really important to keep that in mind as well and make it a slow transition as well. When you do reduce animal foods and increase plant foods because of that increased fiber that a lot of people aren't used to and we do, unfortunately, there is a widespread fiber deficiency which people are just unaware of. Most people are not getting as much fiber as they need to be. When we increase fiber too fast, you will get bloating and indigestion and really uncomfortable GI symptoms.

[00:20:35]
And that's not a sign that you have food sensitivities to those foods. That's just a sign that your gut microbiome hasn't adapted. So, you need to increase it low and slow to small amounts, and you slowly increase to give the gut microbiome time to adapt and adjust to that higher fiber amount in your food. Okay, let's talk about bread. I mean, clearly, we all know that white bread I mean, I hope we all know that white bread is not something what about all these mixtures of grains?

[00:21:00]
Are they healthy for us or not? Whole wheat multigrain, those kinds of things. I'm referring to, yes, whole grains are perfectly healthy. I know that there's a lot of misinformation out there about how we shouldn't be eating grains at all, and humans aren't meant to eat grains. When we do look at these diets of people in the Blue Zones.

[00:21:20]
They're eating a predominantly plant based whole food space diet. It's their legumes, their grains, their fruits and vegetables. They can be part of a healthy diet, and they should be part of a healthy diet because we do get lots of minerals from them. We do get a variety of fiber from them as well. And I really cannot kind of drill that in enough that we need to get a variety of fiber sources because that's really key to maintaining a diverse gut microbiome.

[00:21:46]
And we are seeing over time that over generations, we've lost diversity of the gut microbiome, and that is likely leading to a lot of these other health issues that we're seeing because these gut microbes have a protective effect, the good ones at least, and we want to make sure that we're not losing that diversity. Fascinating. And much of this research and information you've got posted on your website for references, correct? Yes. Okay.

[00:22:11]
And I do on Instagram, I do my post there as well to share information. And then I have the Facebook group for parents specifically, that is specifically geared towards children. Yes, I was just going to jump into that. And so, the name of the Facebook is called Raising Healthy Plant Powered Kids. And so, every week you do a.

[00:22:30]
Live yes, I do, yes. And a couple of the ones that jumped out to me, I mean, you did one, and I was honest with you. As we were setting up for this podcast, I listened to one a couple of days ago about Fight Tates and Lectins, and I thought, I don't even know what the word phytates meant, but, I mean, very informative and one that was fascinating to me as a lifelong educator, which children with behavioral issues in our classes, every single one of them right. How to Co Regulate Your Child's Emotions, goes hand in hand with our diets and our nutrition. Fascinating.

[00:23:00]
To me. Isn't this an incredible topic to be discussing for the 100th episode? Setting ourselves off to be healthier as whole human beings, not just physically, but emotionally gut health, all of it's connected, right? Yes, of course. And as a holistic nutritionist, I am a big proponent of focusing on the whole body and the mind as well.

[00:23:22]
It's all intertwined. You can't really work on one without working on the other as well. Very true. All right, so you have so many things to offer, Kiran. Let's just talk about all the things that are on your website to start.

[00:23:36]
Sure. So, my website is www.ketohealthnc.com. I offer one on one private nutrition counseling for kids and adults. Of course, with the kids, I work with the parents, not the children.

[00:23:50]
And so I offer help with whatever chronic symptoms you have. And if you're unsure of how I can help you, I do offer complimentary discovery calls just 15 to 20 minutes calls where we can chat. And if I don't think I can help you, or if I don't think you actually have a legitimate concern, I will let you know. I have turned people away and said you really have nothing to worry about. And if that's the case, there's no harm done in just setting up a call and chatting with me about it.

[00:24:18]
And if you do have concerns that I feel I can help you with, I will let you know as well. And I also offer a group program. It's a six-month group program for plant-based families. And we work on picky eating, we work on gut health, and it's specifically geared towards plant based kids. So you don't have to be completely plant based, but if you're heading in that direction, it's a great program.

[00:24:39]
And we work on mental health and mood and sleep and environmental health as well, and everything we need to watch out for. So it's sort of this all-encompassing program. And then I also offer a course for people who are just transitioning to a plant-based diet and lifestyle or even people who have already been plant based for a while, but they kind of just did it on their own on a whim and they're not really sure if they're doing it right. And that's just a shorter six-week course that just gives you kind of the basics about the nutrients you need, the food you need to be eating, meal planning, meal prepping, a little basic intro to gut health and that's more of just a smaller kind of version of my larger program. And you also do weekly Facebook lives.

[00:25:24]
If we're curious, we can join your group. Yes, I do. So I have a Facebook group called the Raising Healthy Plant Powered Kids. Facebook group? And I do weekly lives on a different topic, and I take suggestions from my audience as well.

[00:25:36]
So if you're in the group, you are always welcome to send me a message or a DM with topic suggestions. And many of my weekly live topics do come from members within the group who are curious about something. And I say, hey, we'd like to know more about this. And so, I'll turn that into a weekly live. And I just like to do these weekly little tidbits of information and things that either I may come across that I'm noticing is comment.

[00:26:01]
It might be something that my clients bring up a lot, something I see online a lot, or something that the members of the group bring up as a concern of theirs. So, let's just pick one off the top of your head. I put you on the spot. I know, but what's a common concern? A common concern is the basic nutrients.

[00:26:20]
So a lot of parents are just worried that they don't know if their kids are getting the basics and they don't even know what the basics are oftentimes okay, All right. And you can help with that. All right. Lots of different ways to contact you. They're all going to be in the Show Notes, and we just started something new on Taking the Home.

[00:26:38]
You can get the entire transcript by going to my blog and that entry, that link will also be in the Show Notes. So, Kiran, let's do the drum world. This is the 100th episode of Taking the helm. And what are you giving away today? I'm giving away a free 1-hour nutrition counseling session with me.

[00:26:57]
So the lucky winner will get to chat with me through zoom. So it doesn't matter where you are in the world, you can enter for this and you can chat with me one on one and we can go over your nutritional concerns. I can look over whatever it is that you're eating now and give you pointers and advice on how to tweak your diet and any other concerns that you have. You can pick my brain for an hour. That is absolutely fantastic.

[00:27:19]
And I too am offering a 1-hour free consultation. And that's for aspiring authors who want to make a decision. You've got something, you've got an idea, you're starting to write, but you don't know if you should do traditional, hybrid, self-published, all of the different publishing options. I can help you look at the pros and cons. So, 1 hour there.

[00:27:39]
And my coauthor and I are also giving away one free book of I Have Choices, the first book in our Children's Power of Thought series, which you heard about halfway through this interview in our little promotion. So email lynn@lynnmclaughlin.com. That's lynn@lynnmcLaughlin.com and your name will be put in the draw. And if you would kindly put in the subject line 100-Episode Giveaway, then Kiran and I will know that you're entering the contest and we'll draw the names for three different prizes.

[00:28:15]
And if you are the lucky winner, you will be informed by email, and we'll give you the contact information on how you can claim your prize. Good luck to each one of you. And I thank you today for joining us and setting us off in the right direction with episode 100 of Taking the Home. Thank you so much for having me, Lynn. Now, our guest in two weeks is Sarah de Felicia.

[00:28:35]
She also goes by Deflow, and because of a series of experiences in her own life, she is now passionate about helping creatives, heart centered businesses and way showers share their true essence and gifts. She has been obsessed with the use of a video since she was ten years old and uses it to make art and a tool of self-reflection and expression. And I love the quote she refers to on her website by Maya Angelou. There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside of you. Hope you'll join us next time.

[00:29:09]
Stay healthy and safe, everyone.

(MUSIC OUTRO) Thanks for tuning in and posting your review of taking the helm on your favorite platform. We'll give you a shout out in a future episode. To be inspired by people who are steering us in the right direction. Go to lynnmclaughlin.com, where you can search previous guests by the topic of your choice. And while you're there, download Lynn's gift. There's more than one way to get through a crisis.

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