PAT BUTLER | UNPACKING THE GRIEf OF DIVORCE. THANKS FOR LEAVING ME!
And it's time to take the helm. If you're in the midst of a divorce, Pat Butler is joining us today, and she's written a book called thanks For Leaving Me. Stay tuned.
Are you facing a crisis in your life or business? It's time to steer yourself in the right direction through the real experiences, passion and courage of our guests who are taking the helm. With your host, Lynn McLaughLynn .
00:00:30
It's my pleasure to introduce Pat Butler. After 40 years of marriage, her husband Left her, and she has written a book, as I said in the intro, called thanks For Leaving Me, as well as a journal to help people through divorce. We have so much to talk about. Hi, Pat. And thanks for joining us from Toronto to take the helm with us today.
00:00:50
Thank you so much for inviting me to chat with you, Lynn.
Well, I have to tell you, I was so intrigued when I heard about the title of your book, thanks For Leaving Me, and I thought, well, that's interesting. How do you thank someone for walking away? So, let's start with that, Pat, what happened in your life that just totally shocked you and took you aback?
00:01:11
Well, I had a very happy life with a very nice husband and wonderful children and so on. And my career, I don't know if you want to know about it, but I'll throw in the back, of course. I was a physics and math teacher originally. Stayed home with my kids for five years. I did a master's in education, got into training consulting, and we retired. I retired in 2006, and my husband retired in 2005, and we started traveLynng the world. And then in 2009, he connected with somebody and pulled the plug on the marriage after only two months of knowing this woman.
Oh, my goodness.
And after 41 years of marriage, it was quite a shock. And anyway, I survived, as one does. Our separation happened really relatively quickly. Within five months, we were separated, learned to live alone, and then married again in 2014 when I found a wonderful new husband. Now, in 2016, I felt moved to sit on my back deck with all my journals that I had been writing in during my separation and write a book. And out came. Thanks for reading me. My first version was all over the place because I didn't want to give away family secrets. But then I took a course at University of Toronto, and I hired my professor as my writing coach and editor, and she really helped me tighten things up. So we call it an embellished memoir embellished and something still protected, I would think.
00:02:52
Yes. There's Marriage One, which is about what happened with my first husband. And I did various things to change his identities and things that happened with us. But the second chapter is called Recovery. Third one is marriage, too. And everything that happened in those two areas is absolutely. The way it happened, except for the names and the reason I wrote it, was because I was in my late 60s when this happened. And I know a number of women and men who, when they find themselves by them alone later in life, they just give up and say, oh, well, I'm just going to play a lot of golf. I'm going to do a lot of drinking. There are many, many wonderful things left in life. And so that's why I did. Thanks for leaving me. Now, it got into the hands I got into the hands of David Frankel, who's a young divorce lawyer in Toronto. He'd written an article about divorce in the Global Mail, sent him a copy. He loved it. He started recommending it to his friend, his clients, rather, and because they found it helpful and inspiring.
00:04:05
Oh, my goodness. Let me just go back to that. Because I interrupted you there.
I just can't imagine what the grieving process must have looked like. And I'm sure there's still a point where there's regret. No.
Oh, I still miss him terribly. I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm in loving them anymore, but I particularly find my children's birthdays difficult. Of course, when they were born, they were both born in November. It's a togetherness thing. You makes the babies and you bring them home and you bring them up, particularly when they had milestone birthdays, like turning 40 and turning 50. My goodness. I felt sad for a day. But I have learned, and this is part of my training from my masters in education, I've learned the importance of living when sadness and giving myself permission to go for a long walk by myself or something like that, or do some writing to let myself live my sadness and grief. Because it's the only way it's ever going to stop affecting my mood.
00:05:16
So for someone who's in the midst of this right now, just separated, just getting the shocking news that you did, what's a guiding piece of advice you would give them, because that time has just got to be so how do you start to get bearings again?
Well, may I mention my second book? Of course, yes.
00:05:38
That was going to be my next question.
But don't be careful. My new book, which I ended up writing with David Frankel, this young lawyer I referred to, is a workbook. It's called my divorce journal. A Guided Path to Moving Forward. Now, the way it came about because and the reason I immediately think about chapter one when you ask me that question, about the upheaval. I was going to have lunch with David at the very beginning of COVID and it was canceled for obvious reasons. And I said, Darn, I wanted to tell you about this idea I have for a workbook, because I had done some seminars on divorce recovery called Suddenly Single, which he knew about, and he sent his clients to and I've done that four times, four sessions in each, and I've done it four times. And I decided I had enough looking backwards and I wanted to start looking forward and putting something down and writing that I didn't have to live through. When you're doing a seminar, you're very, very involved. Of course. And when he heard my idea, I said, I'm thinking of taking some of the exercises from my seminars and putting them into a workbook. I can grade two arithmetic workbook. And he said, May I be your co author?
00:07:00
Oh, my gosh. What an honor. What an honor. I was absolutely thrilled because he being a divorce lawyer, he knows all the legal side. And so we've written this book together without seeing each other face to face at all. Exactly. We got the book we had thanks to Working from Home, and so we've divided it into there are five chapters, and the first one is called first of all, I'll just read to you the names of the chapters. If you don't mind reacting to upheaval, then Managing Logistics, which involves sharing the news with family and friends, taking Care of Your Children, how to Tell the Children About What's Happening. Part four is navigating your feeLynngs after the dust settles. And number five is moving forward. And in number five, we talk about if you do decide that you want to find another partner, whether it's a live in person or just a casual dating, we give dos and don'ts about how to make that happen. Brilliant. So the reacting to Upheaval is the part that I found the hardest because in my own situation, my sons were married, living in different parts of the country, and funny things started to happen at home. And I confronted him and found there were things going on. And so that was an extremely difficult time, because once you open the door on a piece of information like, I think our marriage is ending, it's a heavy thing. And there's a lot of grieving.
00:08:47
I would say we have didn't mention in this workbook. We have 83 exercises and three worksheets. And at the end of every chapter you do a worksheet, and one of them is called Checking My Emotional Pulse.
You know what? I love it. I love it. I love it. After I had my brain tumor, right, my surgery a year later, I developed writing prompts from my journals. I think it's just really interesting, the connection that you use journals right from the beginning to take you on this Pathway to helping so many people who are going through such a it's traumatic. It's a traumatic time in their life. So you mentioned one of the chapters, Being Children, and we are about to really hone in on taking the helm to the niche of children's emotional well being. We're working in the background to make that happen within the next few weeks. Huge, huge launch coming up and I'm a child of divorce right? Of divorced parents. I've got stepbrothers, I've got stepsisters, stepmom and dad all that kind of stuff happening on because they both chose to remarry and ages of children matter a great deal as well. So talk to me about that chapter and what guiding words you have for parents who are trying to support their children right now through this.
00:10:05
Well the first thing we recognize is that we divide children into two categories dependent and independent. So dependent children, they may be in your twenty s and they're off at university but if they come home and live under your life, under your roof at all, then we consider them dependent children and then independent children. Now an error that I made myself because as I said earlier both of my sons were married. It never occurred to me to reach out to them and say how are you getting on? Like what do you think about all this news? I never gave them an opening. It took me about eight months before in doing some reading it came across the idea that we all as adults need to be given a chance to open our hearts and explain how we're feeLynng about things in order to recover. So we say at the beginning of the chapter we make this division into dependent and independent and those with only independent children might choose to just jump right to the end of the chapter. That's their choice. We have a section on telLynng the children. We have five overarching principles which I would like to share with you. One is that children are innocent. They don't cause the divorce. They didn't contribute to the failed marriage. Principle two children are vulnerable. Principle three children want to know why. They observe an explanation of the breakup. One correlated to their age and that makes sense to them. You're naturally going to use more grownup language with a ten year old and a three year old. Principle four children deserve to know what to expect in the family in the future.
I can imagine the questions going through their minds.
Oh yeah, where am I going to live? Who's going to take care of me? Am I going to have to move away? Do I have to leave my school? Oh my gosh, my friends, all of it.
00:12:08
So all those questions like we give quotes like the exercise, what questions will each child want to ask you? What questions may they be afraid to ask? What questions should you proactively answer. Although they haven't been verbalized, we put a lot of really careful attention into these questions for people to respond to in their own journals, waiting in a blank journal. So principle number four children deserve to know what to expect in the future. Their separation will result in the children's world being changed forever. And principle number five principle five children deserve an apology. May be unable to say you're sorry to your spouse, but your children deserve a heartfelt apology. And then we have a very extensive section which I won't go into right now, but on how to prepare for the conversation. Now, you and your spouse should do this preparing together. And if you're at Locker Heads, it may not be something that he or she particularly feels like being involved in, but it's absolutely crucial. And we go into all kinds of detail about setting the stage, turning off closing all the doors, turning off all the devices and phones and everything and getting everybody's attention. And we give practically a script for people to go through to make sure that the children get their message, get the important message, which is going to be great for them to hear. I know somebody who is actually a family member whose parents divorced when she was eight, and she can tell you right now what she was wearing that day and what he had for dinner that night.
00:13:57
I remember the conversation, too. I do. I remember yeah, when my father came home and yeah, oh, yeah, I remember that vividly. Isn't that how old were you? I was the oldest of four, and I think it was around 13 when the separation actually happened and the divorce came several years later. Pat, I want to go back to what you said about your grown up sons, your married sons, and I've just put my hat on as if I were that child. And I can understand why they didn't vote to the subject with you because they were protecting you. It's their own way of saying, mom's got to deal with this and the way mom wants to deal with it, and she'll talk to us when she wants to talk to us. I think they've they probably were in the protective mode.
00:14:37
They probably were. But it was lovely when I did get around many months later, giving them an opening and to find out their reactions. Now, they have worked very hard on being loyal to their father, and this is something which an outsider might say, oh, my goodness, given what happened. But there's a very important principle to divorce that I have come to embrace, which is when a divorce happens, there's a little bit of blame on each person's side. Nobody is blameless. And the thing is that when you are the one who's being left, you and your friend gather around and they say, oh, isn't he terrible? But there must have been things which I put up with as a spouse that annoyed me, that I didn't want to raise. I've always been a very non confrontational person, the way I was brought up, and so it was my husband, and so I realized now I should have expressed my own needs and wants in a more clear way than I did. So the fact is that with my sons and grandchildren, I have five. I want to always treat my ex with friendLynness when we're nearby each other, which we are periodically, once in a blue moon I don't ever want. And I got this help from the therapist at the very beginning. She said, Pat, the tone that you set around interactions with your ex is going to last a lifetime.
00:16:24
And for your children and your grandchildren, and they will know it, and they will sense it absolutely if you start. Criticizing him even in the most passive aggressive way, throwing out little comments about, oh, isn't this terrible because of bubble. And I took that really to heart and I've lived it the whole time and I must say it has paid off.
And those conversations, those difficult conversations need to happen outside of the presence of children. Those are private conversations. Right? Well, I commend you in making this available for people who are in the midst of a really trying time of their lives and putting children in their own mental health and well being at the forefront. You mentioned in our previous conversation another resource that she discovered that you want to talk about
00:17:10
Yes. I came across a book by a man named William Bridges, and it's called Transitions making Sense of Life's Changes. And he describes, he says with every transition and they can be a negative thing like a divorce or a death in the family, or a positive, like moving across the country, or starting a new career, or moving into a new house. And in every time you have a major transition in your life, there are three stages. There is endings, then the neutral zone and then new beginnings. And when you think of it, if you were suppose you're living in a house that you bought early in your marriage and then you are now moving 300 miles away, the endings going around and saying goodbye to the house and thinking reliving the time you brought a baby home to it and all that kind is really quite wonderful. So we discussed these three things. David and I have used his model and we have a graphic and we use this model in the book a lot. And that the part that really surprised me in my research and in my own recovery is the neutral zone. The middle part because we're incLynned when you're feeLynng sad, oh, I know, I'm going to go and get myself a new car. The neutral zone is all about drifting and letting yourself drift, go off by yourself. And the wonderful thing about the neutral zone is the source of self renewal when we need it. Just the way an apple tree needs the cold of winter. I love that you need to let yourself absolutely turn into a ball, turn off your phone, ignore people. I'm not saying permanently, but maybe over a weekend. I personally went off to Stratford, Ontario when I was going through a very bad time and one of my early womans went poof. I went off to Stratford, Ontario, got myself single seats, which are very easy to do at the last minute. Barely spoke to anybody else in the bed and breakfast. I stayed in. I didn't even really say much to the owner. And I realized afterwards that I was in the neutral zone. But when I got home, I didn't even take my cell phone with me, believe it or not, for those three days. It was over July 1, 2011, and when I got home, I was creeping back. I'd let my emotions go into this cold that the apple trees need. It's beautiful.
00:19:58
And to me, and I might be wrong, but we've all had difficult times in our lives. We've all had Craces. Right? That neutral zone has got to be the toughest part. It's the toughest part because you have to find your new way.
And we go into quite a lot of in the book, we go into quite a lot of detail and suggestions about things that you might do in this neutral zone, but just recognizing that it happens. Now, I have heard you say, Lynn, that you are a Type A personality, and I'm very much a Type A personality as well. And those of us who fit that category just want to get on with things. Okay, all right, this is happening. Let's go to know I've been looking this is why it was so important for me to understand this concept, and I want the world to know about it.
And, you know, an awful moment for me was I don't remember who I was speaking to. I think I was in a collaborative network at one point. And if you're a go go, do do do do person, you really need to pause and ask yourself, Why?
00:20:56
Yes.
Why aren't you embracing some moments of peace and quiet and being present and walking?
Why? Why do you feel the need to be go go going and do do doing all the time? I'll just leave with that question. Oh, boy. All right, where can people find you and your books?
00:21:17
Well, I have a website which is called Fresh Startpress. All. One word. Fresh start. Press. And I've got thanks for Leaving Me is on there. And also my divorce journal, both of those books. And then there's a historical fiction that I've written as well, which has nothing to do with Fresh Start. But these books are available through Amazon all over the world, and in Canada, Indigo, and so that's where people can join them.
Let me just ask you a quick question because we're in the midst of my co author and I making a decision. Ours are available in French. Are you thinking about translating to any other languages? Because we're considering Arabic and Spanish as well.
I think we need to watch our numbers grow a little more than that in order to make it worthwhile. We have had wonderful kudos from five experts in the field, which we sent the manuscript to. The one on the COVID reads a top of the list guidebook for separating and divorcing parents. And that is said by Barbara Fiddler, PhD, cLynnical developmental psychologist. And she trains judges and lawyers about child custody issues.
00:22:39
Oh, perfect. She has given us this big advanced praise, which is wonderful. And then there's more inside once and but David and I recognize that this is a marathon, not a sprint, getting into the world. And over time, like, maybe in a year, we might consider it going into another language. But we're still in the early stages.
I love to ask fellow authors these questions. There's different perspectives. I still appreciate you joining us today.
Well, thank you so much for I really am thrilled to be chatting with you, Lynn, and I wish you well in your new what's the word? Mode focus on mental health of children. I think it's hugely important right now.
00:23:24
Thank you very much and thanks for speaking about children today as well. Thanks.
Next week's guest is Cindy Tank Murphy. She's the best selLynng author of the book called The Strength to Live finding, HeaLynng and Hope after a Loss from Suicide. The book guides us through the darkness that she felt after losing her father to suicide. She's also going to be speaking about her first hand experience of supporting her daughter through mental health struggles. Be healthy and safe everyone, and we'll see you in two weeks time on Taking the Home.
Thanks for tuning in and posting your review of Taking the Home on your favorite platform. We’ll give you a shoutout in a future episode. To be inspired by people who are steering us in the right direction. Go to lynnmclaughlin.com where you can search previous guests for the topic of your choice. And while you're there, download Lynn's gift. There's more than one way to get through a crisis.
